I wanted to say before I went to sleep the following.
Thank you for all of support. This hasn’t been a thrilling past couple of days for any of us, especially Brian. It really bothers him what has happened with the server. Whenever you have something special you created, you hate to see it break in front of your eyes.
I just sent an e-mail to Brian, the developers, and the community managers that basically summed up the 100+ ideas in the Post-Reboot post. I am curious to see what all of us on the ComputerSims staff think about the wonderful ideas you all presented. There are lot of ideas we haven’t thought about before that many of you made interesting cases for.
I don’t know what is in store for the next few days, weeks, months, etc. We will keep you up-to-date, no matter what. Decisions are probably going to be made fairly quickly, so we should be able to give you a general idea on what direction we are going soon. We have to move fairly quickly too to keep our user base together. The longer we wait, the harder it is to get things back to normal.
I also asked Brian if he wants a donation info on here. I am sure he will talk about that tomorrow.
All I know is, I miss the game already. We all do…
- Chris G.
January 24, 2007 at 10:48 pm
thanks for all the hard work guys!
January 25, 2007 at 10:26 am
Hang in there. It’s a great game and there are a lot of players faithful to it. Even though some complain, I’m certain that all of them appreciate your hard work and realize that it wouldn’t be here without that.
January 25, 2007 at 10:36 am
One concern about player renames:
I type to keep Access database/Excel spreadsheets of my league’s activities. I know I’m not the only one who does this. It would be extremely frustrating to keep track of league history if top players were constantly getting renamed every time a new owner shows up. Also the verisimilitude of game is going to be compromised when the ace of my division archrival changes from Winthrop Smith of the Anytown Winthrops to Roger Clemens of the Boston Red Sox. And then a couple seasons later it changes to Nelson Muntz of Springfield Elementary. It may not matter in the Greek Leagues, but I know that a lot of private leagues try hard to create a sense of history which is going to be damaged by renames. Maybe all leagues should have the ability to turn this feature off/on.
A player should only be allowed one rename per career, preferably the draft year only. In addition, the player’s original name should be kept somewhere on the player’s card so other owners can cross-reference the original name.
An alternative/additional suggestion:
Charge $1 or $2 to add an updatable summary page to the player’s card. The purchaser would have rights to the edit the space for life. The owner would also have the ability of “transfer” ownership to another owner (e.g. if he trades the player to another team, he quits the league, etc.). The type of information that could be included likes to player league awards, salary by year, important games, fictional personal data, trade history, their stats before the flip, etc. Another possibility would be to automatically include a link to all the player of the game games when they are updated on the player’s card. I’m sure a few private leagues may mandate that all players have an editable summary which would create a steady stream of income for CSFBL.
Eventually, additional statistics could be tracked as part of this fee. Basically all the single game stats that have been discussed for CSBB. One example would be hitting streaks, which are nearly impossible to track now. Other examples for pitchers would be no-hitters, games with 10+ K, etc. Examples for hitters would be five hit games, cycles, games with 3 or more HR, 6 or more RBI’s, etc.
Other great examples of possible statistics would be player averages for the past three seasons, the last 20 games etc. I know all of this means more programming time. However the initial summary page would be a single Blob field so that could be added in a one or two weeks. The other stats could be slowly implemented as they are completed and would probably be transferable to the new game.
Some additional suggestions about pay to play:
1. Charge $35 add a created team to a new league (private or Greek). New teams = more server overhead = really bad for the state of CSFBL. I think CSFBL is too lenient allowing owners to create and uncerimonously dumped them in their first or second season. CSFBL should be about taking an exisiting team and improving it, not making babies and becoming a dead-beat parent. A real check for a real amount of money would keep monkeys out of new leagues. This one time fee would apply for the life of the team. Finally this fee would be wavied when teams are forced to join a new league when their Greek league becomes defunct.
2. Charge $10 to inhert an exisiting team. Again this would be a one time fee. This would not apply to a new owner joining CSFBL with their first team. Again $10 is next to nothing when you consider that this would be a life-time fee. It would also force owners to be more judicious when deciding whether they really want to jump around from team to team to team. This alternative would also allow a way for cheap/poor players to stay in CSFBL since they would not have to pony up money every year, assuming they pick one or two private leagues and stick with them.
January 25, 2007 at 11:04 am
I like Marc’s idea a lot; that seems to have the best of all worlds wrapped up. My only question would be the logistics of how that would work on Brian & the rest of the development team’s end. But if that’s feasible, I think that’s a solid way to progress.
January 25, 2007 at 12:13 pm
just a quick observation mark,what happens to all the younger kids who play CSFBL who have no ability to pay and who cant rely on thier parents to send out a check,would u want to see them get screwed over if this goes to a pay site?
January 25, 2007 at 12:21 pm
We are weighing all options, crunching the numbers, and trying to figure out the best balance between going full-blown for pay and staying free. If it turns out the only way to survive is going completely paid, we will do that. If it turns out we can survive with most of the game still free, we will do that and so on.
The key being, no option is off the table. We have to find a way for the game to pay for itself, or we won’t have a game. Simple as that.
January 25, 2007 at 12:30 pm
I agree about the 1 year wonders who start a team and never finish. I see it all the time. There has to be some deterrent in preventing that. However, to reiterate Chris thoughts, what about the newbies (such as myself) to simbaseball that haven’t figured out all the little nuances and philosophies of simbaseball. It’s obviously drastically different from the rotiserrie format I am accustomed and therefore, may take me a couple of seasons to understand strategies and longer term ramifications of drafting players. So to be hit with a fee for starting up a team right from jump street, you also deter any newcomers that are trying simbaseball for the first time. I know I would not pay for something I don’t even know I would enjoy.
I currently selected an existing team ( happens to be 1st in its division) and while its nice of having picked a succesful starter team, I am not really exposing myself to what went into the “art” of acquiring this team.
It is difficult when you are financially strapped to come up with succesful resolutions to an arduous task of revamping policy, but remember, once the decision is made, everyone has to live with the “what ifs” later on. Cuz, once you lose your fan base, it rarely comes back.
January 25, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Thats what I told Brian in an e-mail, you are only going to get one shot at this and what you do and who you listen too will decide the future of this game…There comes a point in time with something like this that you gotta listen to experience…you listen to those that have never ventured into the world of the best ways to create revenue and your going to get burned..and your game will suffer.
January 25, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Chris,
I sent a message to you at your personal blog–I couldn’t find contact information on this blog–please check it and get back with me.
Thanks!
January 25, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Re: all the younger kids who play CSFBL who have no ability to pay and who cant rely on thier parents to send out a check,would u want to see them get screwed over if this goes to a pay site?
I’m not sure if I made myself clear, but I think everyone should get at least one free team. This could be upped to two or even three.
In addition, maybe owners can earn a new team by winning consistently with the one they have over the course of several seasons. Another possibility would be to allow other owners to rate their peers (like ebay) based on their activity.
Also if “earned” teams were distingished from “bought” teams, I’m SURE that private leagues would prefer adding the “earned” team to their league since they are getting an owner who has proven his worth. They way the better private leagues work now, you have to know somebody who knows somebody. And THEN you might get in 6 months from now. “Earning” teams would be a way for private leagues to measure the worth of an owner they haven’t played against in another league.
Re: This high price for creating teams.
IMHO, Newly created teams seem to be one of the worst features in CSFBL . Just check the leagues created in the past few months. Most of them have vacancies already. Many of those vacancies were created by owners who have A LOT of CSFBL experience. Many of the same owners will create another new team sometime again in the near future. These types of owners are why 75% of new leagues fail in their first year (or is that restaurants?)
January 25, 2007 at 1:18 pm
I am still curious on how this will affect ComputerSims if/when this game is released. Would the payment/fees for the game or features pay for both CSFBL and ComputerSims?
I think this is the larger question. It’s great to debate as to whether CSFBL is a pay-game or not. It’s obviously got to the crossroads as to whether to continue or not. But I think at some point the question should be raised if the game will continue along side of the newer and improved version of itself.
I hope everything can be worked out. I really enjoyed the game, but I also really enjoyed the community that came with it. Baseball fans hanging out playing some baseball sims and chatting. Thanks again for the game, reagardless of how everything turns out.
January 25, 2007 at 1:21 pm
No doubt that if younger kids want any part of the game that costs money, their parents will have to pay. Just like parents pay to buy video consoles and the games that go with them and other fun stuff that kids do. I don’t see that as a huge problem.
January 25, 2007 at 1:36 pm
dimo… parents pay for video consoles and games… you should go back in time a couple years and tell my parents that
January 25, 2007 at 1:44 pm
You could ask for it as a birthday present. There’s always away. I’ve been dirt poor nearly all my life and have been able to find a way to get things if I really wanted them.
January 25, 2007 at 1:57 pm
trust me… no chance to ever get something like that for a b-day or christmas gift… thats just not how my parents roll lol…
its not like my parents are poor or anything (although i am from paying for school lol), they just dont do that kind of stuff
January 25, 2007 at 2:04 pm
That sucks. This is why I like the idea of being able to sponsor people. I’m sure you’ll be safe whatever the end result is.
January 25, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Keep in mind all the suggestions and posts here, even by myself,chris,babar and harborpirate are our own personal ideas of how the game could be structured. Brian is weighing the opitions and will likely find some sort of morphing of all the great ideas everyone has posted.
In the short term, if we do go to a pay to play format, it should be something that can be put together quickly.
The quickest solution, for the short term, is a yearly charge of “X” amount (i think $25 is more than reasonable for 1 year.)
Now, that said, I know Brian will want to have some sort of “free” access to play the game, be it slower sim rates, only 1 team, or whatever, but I am sure a FREE full functioning game will still exist assuming CSFBL comes back up.
Long term I think the transition to ComputerSims Baseball will be a completely different site, but membership from one to the other will likely be simply a transitional thing.
Additional functionality will be based on if new CODE will need to be written to achieve that end…which costs…costs in terms of TIME.
Things like memberships, charging $1 for player renames, etc. however can be handled fairly simply via a service like pay pal or the like and can happen quickly.
I think the issues are cost and time. Brian is only 1 guy, tackling a new job, and is really the only one with DB access at this point.
I think the community has shown its willingness to do “what it takes” and thats pretty kool and a testament to all of us who play and make up the community.
Granted, it is likely we may lose some people for one reason or another, but we can not expect Brian to run the game at a loss forever, that just doesnt make sense (and most posts I have read fully realize and accept that fact). Brian really just wants the game to be self-sufficient and pay for itself…it was never intended to be a profit maker.
In the end, I am sure that CSFBL and eventually CSBB will exist … however the reality is that it just may cost a little simply to allow its existence at all. I truly think that the last thing we want is to see CSFBL go away…personally I have spent WAAAAAY too much time to see that happen, and I know so have many of you guys.
Reality is though, CSFBL may be down a week or MORE while the Dev Team, and ultimately Brian makes some big decisions about the direction of this game.
January 25, 2007 at 4:34 pm
I hope that one of the main things in CSFBL will not change, and that is that every manager has the same chances and circumstances for the game. With all additions and extra things you can pay for you should not get an advantage over the other managers in your league.
January 25, 2007 at 5:29 pm
I can not agree more HAWK-CHAMP … parity must be a primary concern, and I believe very much that it will stay that way.
January 25, 2007 at 5:50 pm
I still just think it’s really risky switching over to a fee system instead of some kind of dedicated donation system because the SECOND it becomes a pay site, right or wrong, people will expect PERFECT service.
January 25, 2007 at 5:51 pm
I hope I really hope, when it turns into a direction where managers can buy campionships……this will not be funny to play….